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And they’re the ones that will come to the hospital if I’m sick. So I have a group of friends who I see, and I see them regularly. I mean, when their parents die, if a child dies, if you suddenly have to move, or you lose all your money, or you make a lot of money, you’re going to learn a whole lot of new things about somebody. And also in that relationship in order to actually be good parents, right? Fisher: That’s exactly — and that’s one of the reasons I say to people, “Don’t marry him or her until some of that intensity has worn off.” Ms. And of course, if it’s in a good relationship, you keep learning things about them 30 years later. And even if it’s the same person, that the marriage has to become something new at a different stage in life. But then, this other part, the part about raising children, the part about crafting a long-term love, moving into those next two marriages if you want to use that analogy — we’re so unprepared for. Fisher: Well, this is why — when you said we were in a time of disorganization, and we are. And so we’re at this time of disorganization where nobody knows really how to go forward. Because what you are saying is that, especially generationally, you can — and I have children who are 16 and 20, right? And, of course, parents are now accepting their children living with somebody, so they don’t even have the social stigma of it. So, a lot of people almost intuitively reason, “I’ve got no reason to not do this. All of that is vanishing before our very eyes, 10,000 years of these concepts. And one of the beautiful things about what you just said is that, OK, well, we don’t really know how to parent. And so what we’re doing now is getting into relationships very slowly. And so, they are beginning to — they’re beginning to really understand a human being before they sink the boat into a mutual thing. Tippett: And I think it’s important to dwell on that. And so, some of the riskiest parts of living with somebody are gone. Tippett: And not just them, but all their friend groups. And then there’s this interesting thing that’s happening now with the fluidity of family, of all the forms of family. It would be our sex lives, our romantic lives, and our reproductive lives. Tippett: So when I was reading about your research and what you’re learning — as somebody who has been married and divorced — but also, I think so many of us who are single, but not just single people, kind of look around the world today at the matter of love, and it feels like there’s just a lot of disarray. And I just — I pulled out this passage from a novel. He said, “Lust, that state commonly known as ‘being in love,’ is a kind of madness. Now, whether there’s more disarray than there ever has been, who knows? And I know you also like to work with literature and poetry. It is a distortion of reality so remarkable that it should, by rights, enable most of us to understand the other forms of lunacy with the sympathy of fellow-sufferers.” Ms. Tippett: “And yet, as we all know, it is a madness that, however ferocious, seldom, if ever, lasts…

They’re the ones that I will call to say that I made a speech that people liked. I was talking to somebody recently who said that actually the dinner date is coming back. Fisher: And so — but it gives us great opportunities to build the kinds of partnerships that we really want. Tippett: And that’s a shift that you’re seeing now demographically. More and more people are having children before they marry. And, most people know about disease, and so that — they should be able to monitor that. And, I’m really excited about it because it’s groups of friends. They don’t know these people they way they know the people they hang around with in New York City. You go out with a group of friends and then somehow people are coupled. These one-night-stands, the friends with benefits, the living together before you getting married. But you’re saying that that’s not necessarily about them being flaky or casual. Now, I mean, most people know all about contraception, so that worry is no — should no longer be with us. We’re seeing a new form called — that I call the association. Because they go home to families that they really don’t know very well, and who don’t really know them. Tippett: I wonder if you’ve also paid any attention to something I’m aware of as a parent of teenaged children, and I hear a lot of people talking about it, is that even this romance piece seems to happen collectively in groups. You don’t invite the girl to go to a movie and dinner. But if you casually go out with a group, and you go dancing, and then you all end up having breakfast at 2 a.m. I mean, the fact that a woman’s place is in the home. Tippett: Well, and especially when so many people now are growing up in homes where there was — where marriages didn’t — they failed. I mean, we are shedding 10,000 years of our farming background and all of the concepts that arose with that. And I got huge reasons to really get to know this person.” Ms.




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